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A trascript of the formal conference with Berkley Softwork's Marketing Assistant, Rob Siegel, which took place on Wednesday, March 16, 1988, at 9:00 p.m. EST. The moderator is Sysop Steve Nye. (Moderator) if you want to ask a question please just type a ? (Moderator) and I will put you in line ...... (Moderator) if you want to comment on the present topic..... 8:01:37 PM CST Wednesday, March 16, 1988 User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area ---- ------------ --- --- ----------------- 34 73127,1476 WER 18 Ed Flinn 44 70007,2376 OKC 18 Rob Siegel 59 72150,707 KLH 18 james g. graham 84 76703,4244 DLQ 18 sysop sileo 85 76703,4037 SEA 18 Sysop Betty 106 76703,4032 NAS 18 Moderator 122 73220,362 YOR 18 sean maher (Moderator) type a ! and I will put you in the queue for that too..... (Moderator) to start things off....Rob...would you like to make an opening statement? ga (Rob Siegel) Yes, I just want to say thank you for having me here tonight.... (Rob Siegel) I'm very excited to be a part of CompuServe, and I hope I can get to all of your.... (Rob Siegel) questions as they come up. ga (sean maher) ? (Moderator) Rob, does Berkeley plan any support.... (Moderator) for the 1581 as boot drive for Geos? (Rob Siegel) Not as a boot drive, but the 64 version will have an.... (Rob Siegel) update that will use it for a data drive just as the 128 version uses it. (sean maher) when is version(1.4, i assume) scheduled for release? (Rob Siegel) Well, it may be called version 2.0 and not 1.4, and I would look for an early summer release. ga (sean maher) oh. (Ed Flinn) ? (Moderator) ga Ed (Ed Flinn) any schedule on Son of P.R.G. ? <grin> (Rob Siegel) <grin>> (sysop sileo) Huh? (Rob Siegel) I (Ed Flinn) Programmer Ref Guide, steve (sysop sileo) tanx! (Rob Siegel) The question refers to Son of Programmers Reference Guide.... (Rob Siegel) and it should be out in early summer, too. (Rob Siegel) ga (Dennis Sherren) ? (Moderator) ga Dennis (Dennis Sherren) I read that GEOS is coming out for the Apple II..is this having an.. (Dennis Sherren) impact on release of GEOS products for CBM machines? ga (Rob Siegel) And the answer is no.... (Rob Siegel) We are still working on cbm programs and we will continue to do so.... (Rob Siegel) In fact, GEOS for the Apple // should HELP cbm owners since... (Rob Siegel) both versions of GEOS have identical file structures. Hence, versions.... (Rob Siegel) on either system can easily be changed to the other..... (Rob Siegel) Fonts, desk accessories, etc. will become more easily available over networks like CompuServe. ga (Dennis Sherren) ? (Moderator) ga Dennis (Dennis Sherren) Does that imply that some programs can run on both machines without changes.. (Dennis Sherren) are kernal routines at same addresses etc? ga (Rob Siegel) No. They do require changes, but the changes are slight and can easily be made to adjust for... (Rob Siegel) the other system. Is that more clear? ga (Dennis Sherren) Yes thank you, Rob ga (Rob Siegel) Glad to help! ga (Moderator) The floor is open...who is next? (Gary Farmaner) ? (Moderator) ga Gary (Gary Farmaner) Rob, to clarify for those who will read the transcript... (Gary Farmaner) Do you mean that users will be able to modify Apple/CBM versions... (Gary Farmaner) to run on the other, or are you saying that it is simpler for Berkley.. (Gary Farmaner) to do so, because of the program structures? ga (Rob Siegel) The former, Gary. Anyone who writes a program will be able to easily.... (Rob Siegel) convert it to the other system. This helps us, too, as this rule applies to our programs as well. ga (Moderator) follow up Gary? (Gary Farmaner) OK... (Gary Farmaner) Rather than a question, I do have a comment. It is generally believed... (Gary Farmaner) that operating systems should not be copy protected... (Gary Farmaner) The 1581 question has probably come up again and again... (Gary Farmaner) and I'll tell you that I only use a 1581 (the MSD-2 is hooked up.... (Gary Farmaner) elsewhere in the house), so for myself, GEOS 128 is currently... (Gary Farmaner) an impossibility. ga (Rob Siegel) Well, let me make something perfectly clear.... (Rob Siegel) Your problems do not stem from copy protection. The problem with the MSD-2 lies (Rob Siegel) in our diskTurbo, which speeds up the disk drive..... (Rob Siegel) The problem with the 1581 is that a new version of the deskTop has not been written to support it.... (Rob Siegel) Sometimes people jump on the "cp bandwagon" and yet the problems don't necessarily come from that..... (Rob Siegel) Hope that helps. ga (sean maher) ! (Moderator) ga Sean (Gary Farmaner) ! (sean maher) many fastload programs check to see if and drives are MSD and disable themselves. ga (Rob Siegel) We wrote diskTurbo specifically for the 1541 and 1571.... (Rob Siegel) since that is what most people own.... (Rob Siegel) We had to do some sort of disk speed up because GEOS is such a monstrous program!.... (Rob Siegel) Therefore, it is the MSD-2 owners that suffer, unfortunately. ga (Moderator) Gary...you had a comment? (Gary Farmaner) Yes... (Gary Farmaner) I didn't know that GEOS wouldn't work with a MSD... (Gary Farmaner) I'm not surprised though. My point was I only use 3.5, and the 5.25 I do... (Gary Farmaner) own is tied up in another use (even if it worked)... (Gary Farmaner) Has Berkley considered... (Gary Farmaner) a dongle, or another protection scheme not associated with the disk? (Gary Farmaner) ga (Rob Siegel) Yes, and I'd like to make clear that we have wrestled with the problem of cp... (Rob Siegel) here in the office. Right now we use the single user license on all applications because it allows the user to make.... (Rob Siegel) unlimited backups for personal use. As for the OS, disk cp was the most cost efficient. ga (Sysop Jake) ? (Moderator) The floor is open....who is next? (Moderator) ga Jake (Sysop Jake) I saw an ad recently for a GEOS programming contest... (Sysop Jake) my question is this: Do you think there are people actually programming in GEOS... (Sysop Jake) It strikes as a user-friendly, but non-programming, environment. ga (Ed Flinn) ! (Rob Siegel) Well, I know that there are quite a few people programming for GEOS... (Rob Siegel) in fact, the geoFont program is being licensed from a user who wrote it! With the programmers reference guide coming out again soon.... (Rob Siegel) I think you will see even more programs written. ga (Sysop Jake) ? (Moderator) Follow up Jake? (Sysop Jake) Yes. Without revealing numbers (unless you want to)... (Sysop Jake) how are the sales of the assembler and/or BASIC? ga (Sysop Jake) Compared to other applications, I mean.ga (Rob Siegel) I don't understand the question. Do you mean geoProgrammer?. ga (Sysop Jake) Yes. geoProgrammer is an assembler, right? (Rob Siegel) It is a combination assembler, linker, and debugger, and there have been "quite a few" sold. < smile > ga (Moderator) Ed....I knew you couldn't let this one pass....ga (Ed Flinn) grin> Jake, I've been playing around with 'Programmer for a couple weeks now... (Ed Flinn) and, given a 1764, it seems to be a pretty solid development tool... (Ed Flinn) the symbolic debugger is a very nice item. <ga> (Moderator) comment Rob? (Rob Siegel) Well, I'll tell the programmers you said so! <smile>ga (Rob Siegel) Thanks! (Moderator) Jake....did you get the answer you wanted? (Sysop Jake) Yes and no. ga (Moderator) ok...the floor is open...who is next? (sean maher) ? (Moderator) ga Sean (Rob Siegel) I can't give exact numbers, Jake. ga (sean maher) i have a friend who is waiting to buy geos until he can find... (sean maher) a mps 1200 printer driver. anyone have one? ga (Rob Siegel) There is one available. If it is not on the disk he purchases.... (Rob Siegel) he can send us a check for $5 to cover shipping and disk media and we will send... (Rob Siegel) him the disk. ga (Sysop Jake) ? (Moderator) follow up Sean? (sean maher) no thanks. (Moderator) ok...ga Jake (Sysop Jake) I'll rephrase my question... (Sysop Jake) If I picture in my mind the typical GEOS user, I can imagine someone who is... (Sysop Jake) ecstatic to be able to use Mac-like fonts in a word processor... (Sysop Jake) But it seems to me that the kind of hacker/programmer who wants to experiment.. (Sysop Jake) with icons and event-driven programming would probably go to a Mac or Amiga or (Sysop Jake) whatever. They like the hottest new computer. (Sysop Jake) Q: Does geoWrite sell better than 'programmer? ga (Rob Siegel) In some respects, you are right, but I know that there are a number of hackers... (Rob Siegel) doing some amazing work. In answer to your second question, you have to remember that geoWrite comes on both the GEOS... (Rob Siegel) package and the geoWrite Workshop package... (Rob Siegel) so there are many more geoWrite's out there than there are geoProgrammer's. ga (Moderator) follow up Jake? (Sysop Jake) No. (Moderator) ok...who is next? (Ed Flinn) ? (Moderator) ga Ed (Ed Flinn) OK (Ed Flinn) Rob, the BASIC package is the only new thing coming down the line I've heard... (Ed Flinn) ...about. Anything new for the 64 you'd like to share with us (Ed Flinn) ga (Rob Siegel) The next program after Icon Basic.... (Rob Siegel) will be the upgrade that we are developing...... (Rob Siegel) (GEOS 2.0 or something like that). Don't forget that we have DeskPack Plus and FontPack Plus.... (Rob Siegel) coming out in the next month. DeskPack plus is a combination of geoDex and DeskPack 1 for only $49.95.... (Rob Siegel) and FontPack Plus has 43 new fonts and geoFont Editor for around $25.00. ga (Moderator) Follow up Ed? (Ed Flinn) nope (Moderator) OK...the floor is open....who is next? (Dennis Sherren) ?? (Moderator) ga Dennis (Dennis Sherren) Rob it appears that CBM is phasing out the 128 for the 128d.. (Dennis Sherren) the 128d has expanded 80 column video ram ... (Dennis Sherren) this would allow for color graphics on 80 column screen.. (Dennis Sherren) ? any thought to upgrading 128 geopaint to support this hardware. ga (Rob Siegel) Perhaps in the future, but we don't have any immediate plans. ga (Sysop Jake) ? (Moderator) ga Jake (Sysop Jake) Someone recently described Mac users' reaction to Hypercard as... (Sysop Jake) "ranking right up there with the discovery of fire..." (Sysop Jake) It seems like GEOS could handle a Hypercard type of program... (Sysop Jake) How do you feel about that?... (Rob Siegel) Ok, HyperCard..... (Rob Siegel) I don't know how much of an use it would have on the Commodore, and disk space would be a problem.... (Rob Siegel) I don't think it is practical for the Commodore. ga User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area ---- ------------ --- --- ----------------- 34 73127,1476 WER 18 Ed Flinn 51 74326,3212 QCE 18 Dennis Sherren 84 76703,4244 DLQ 18 sysop sileo 85 76703,4037 SEA 18 Sysop Betty 106 76703,4032 NAS 18 Moderator 110 73027,1224 QEA 18 Clay Reedhead 114 76703,3050 TTO 18 Gary Farmaner 117 76703,3051 GNC 18 Sysop Jake 122 73220,362 YOR 18 sean maher 125 70007,2376 OKC 18 Rob Siegel 10:01:26 PM EST Wednesday, March 16, 1988 (Dennis Sherren) ! (Moderator) follow up Jake? (Sysop Jake) yes (Sysop Jake) It might be a smart marketing move, given the rivalry (of sorts) between... (Sysop Jake) Apple II and Mac users. The Apple people might buy a Hyper application. ga (Moderator) response Rob? (Rob Siegel) you may be right. I'll bring it up around here and see what I can find out.... (Moderator) Dennis...you had a comment? (Dennis Sherren) Rob struck a vein.. (Dennis Sherren) he said hypercard type of program would be impractical... (Dennis Sherren) that is what they said about a Geos-type program for 64.. (Dennis Sherren) I think Berkely should be encouraged to go for it! (Dennis Sherren) ga (Rob Siegel) << smile >> <<big smile>>.... (Rob Siegel) Well, I didn't mean impractical, I meant that I wasn't sure about demand and if the 64 could handle it. But maybe.... (Rob Siegel) I am wrong. I'll bring it up around here and see what I can find out. (Rob Siegel) ga (Moderator) The floor is open...who next? (Ed Flinn) ? (Moderator) ga Ed (Ed Flinn) Ok (Ed Flinn) Apple again... If BSW support is mainly via Qlink, and "Applers" can't access Q... (Ed Flinn) <yet>... (Ed Flinn) what's that going to do to the already apparently overloaded phone support? ga (Rob Siegel) First, we have added more people to our phone lines which will help, and we are... (Rob Siegel) looking into other telecommunication software programs to help ourselves. ga (Moderator) follow up Ed? (Ed Flinn) short one (Ed Flinn) I've heard rumors for some time now about Q-Apple (Ed Flinn) ga (Sysop Jake) ? (Rob Siegel) I am not aware of anything at this time. (Rob Siegel) ga (Moderator) ga Jake (Sysop Jake) In the Apple world, Mac users say "we have Hypercard and you don't" to II-ites... (Sysop Jake) In the Commodore world, Amiga-oids say "we have multitasking and you don't"... (Sysop Jake) to 64/128 owners. As long as we're talking about impossible missions,... (Sysop Jake) why not geoMultitask? GEOS already has IBM-like TSR programs in accessories. ga (sean maher) ! (Rob Siegel) Like I said, I'll bring it up around here. It is definitely a good idea, but we don't... (Rob Siegel) have any immediate plans. ga (Moderator) ga Sean (sean maher) multi-tasking (as i understand it) is basically a hardware function... (sean maher) but mac users have 'the switcher' which lets you quickly... (sean maher) swap applications with the click-of-a-mouse. (sean maher) ga (Rob Siegel) One more time..... (Rob Siegel) We might add a application to application switcher in the future.... (Rob Siegel) Are there any other questions about GEOS or our other products? ... (Rob Siegel) If not, I don't mind continuing talking about HyperCard. ga (Moderator) I have a question...if no one else does.... (Moderator) Can we expect to see Telecommunications support within Geos in the foreseeable future? (Rob Siegel) Yes, but someone might beat us to it.... (Rob Siegel) But it may happen. ga (Moderator) OK...the floor is open...who is next? (Moderator) Then I have another one..... (Moderator) with the release of BASIC and the GeoProgrammer.... (Sysop Jake) ? (Moderator) do you foresee a good sized program library developing from third party sources? (Rob Siegel) We hope so. That is one of our goals. We also hope that GEOS for the Apple // will enhance third party libraries. ga (Moderator) ga Jake (Sysop Jake) Do you yourself use GEOS? Assuming you do, have you ever removed the RAM expansion... (Sysop Jake) and used it with a 1541 only? ga (Rob Siegel) I always use GEOS and never unhook my REU. ga (Moderator) follow up Jake? (Sysop Jake) A word processor is almost useless without a printer... (Sysop Jake) does BSW *highly recommend* an REU? ga (Rob Siegel) Yes, we "highly recommend" an REU. ga (Moderator) ok...the floor is open...who is next? (Moderator) Then I have another <smile>.... (Moderator) Rob...are there any 'secret' projects you might want to tempt us with? (Rob Siegel) You sly dog, you.... (Rob Siegel) Trying to get me in trouble..... (Moderator) hehehe (Rob Siegel) Well..... (Rob Siegel) Let's just say the next upgrade of the GEOS OS will probably be favorable to most GEOS owners. ga (Gary Farmaner) ? (Moderator) hehehe good answer (I think) (Moderator) ga Gary (Gary Farmaner) OK... (Gary Farmaner) Just wanted to point out that the 1581 provides an enormous amount... (Gary Farmaner) of disk space, twice that of a Mac. Hypercard for 1750/1764/1581 owners... (Gary Farmaner) should be possible. (Rob Siegel) It might be. ga (Moderator) follow up Gary? (sean maher) ! (Gary Farmaner) No thanks (Moderator) ok...ga Sean (sean maher) just for reference.. how many of us here have a 1581? (i do) (Gary Farmaner) Here (Ed Flinn) no (Sysop Jake) 1571 (Moderator) here (sysop sileo) not I (Sysop Betty) Not me. (Moderator) looks about 50-50 (Sysop Jake) I have one at work. (sean maher) i see... (sean maher) ga (Gary Farmaner) ! (Moderator) ga Gary (Rob Siegel) I don't think too many have been sold. ga (Gary Farmaner) Obviously Rob, we're trying to get 1581 support boosted... (Gary Farmaner) Perhaps not, but if you see the C128D as a growth potential for GEOS... (Gary Farmaner) I suspect the second drive of choice WILL be a 1581. ga (sean maher) ! (Rob Siegel) We will support it for the 64.... (Rob Siegel) I'm having fun, now! (Rob Siegel) We will support it, and soon, but only as a second drive. (Moderator) The floor is open...who is next? (sean maher) ! (Moderator) ga Sean (sysop sileo) ? (sean maher) i was going to wait for geos-support of the .. (sean maher) 1581 before i bought, but i'm glad i didn't, cause... (sean maher) i'm having the time of my life with it! (sean maher) ga (Rob Siegel) Glad you like it! ga (Moderator) steve...you had a question? (sysop sileo) Yepper! ... (sysop sileo) Rob, do you have any demographic data which gives a picture... (sysop sileo) of the typical GEOS user... (sysop sileo) and perhaps the type of person who does not use it... (sysop sileo) and if so, what are you doing to try to get the non-user to use it? ga (Rob Siegel) Packed question..... (Rob Siegel) We are doing things like sending out the GEOS NEWS (our newsletter) to all.... (Rob Siegel) of our user base, and we are looking at... (Rob Siegel) reconfiguring our product line. ga (Moderator) follow up steve? (Sysop Jake) ? (sysop sileo) yes... (sysop sileo) But can you tell us if the average GEOS user is under 20, over 12... (sysop sileo) ya know... that kind of stuff. Being an "older" computer user.. (sysop sileo) who grew up with a plain old typewriter keyboard... (sysop sileo) I'm just not drawn to GEOS, and wondered if I fit the picture of the (sysop sileo) typical over 30 kind of guy! ga (Rob Siegel) I can't give exact numbers, but most of our users are male around 28. ga (sysop sileo) That surprises me. Thanks. ga (Moderator) ok...ga Jake (Sysop Jake) There are some great games for the 64, but I can't think of one that runs... (Sysop Jake) under GEOS. What is BSW's attitude towards games? ga (sean maher) ! (Rob Siegel) You might see some in the future, but we won't turn to games for our main line of products. ga (Ed Rodriguez) co (Sysop Jake) no (Moderator) ok...Two more.....Sean..you had a comment? (sean maher) yes. some games (like the ultima's) which are keyboard driven... (Ed Flinn) ! (sean maher) could use to be icon driven, but most arcade-type games could... (sean maher) probably run better without certain restrictions set by... (sean maher) the GEOS operating system. ga (Moderator) Ed....your comment is the last one...ga (Ed Flinn) WISH LIST: support for more than 2 disk drives... No writing the swap file... (Ed Flinn) when disk is shadowed under REU <ga> (Rob Siegel) I think you might see all of those happen in the near future. (Ed Flinn) <yay!> (Moderator) Rob...I want to thank you for being our guest tonight.... (Moderator) and would like to invite you to stay around if your time permits.... (Moderator) and we can go informal for a little while.... (Moderator) you are welcome to join us if you like.... (Moderator) and I will give you a chance to wrap it up..... (Moderator) before we run totally out of time <smile> ga (Rob Siegel) Well, I'd just like to say thank you for having me here, and you all had.... (Rob Siegel) some good suggestions for BSW. I thank you again for having me, but I must be... (Rob Siegel) going. ga (Moderator) ok...thank you for being here....and thank you to all who have made this... (Moderator) an informative co. (Sysop Betty) Rob, we all thank you for a good CO. Thanks. (sysop sileo) Thanks for doing the CO, Rob. (Sysop Jake) Thanks, Rob. I enjoyed it. (Gary Farmaner) A thank you to our moderator. (sysop sileo) Here, here (Rob Siegel) Thanks a lot, and have a good night! (Ed Flinn) (applause) (Moderator) nite Rob (sysop sileo) or is that 'hear, hear'? (Sysop Betty) Thanks for an excellent job of moderating, SteveN. (Moderator) Thank you, Betty (sean maher) i had a GREAT TIME at my first co! < < w i d e g r i n> > (Moderator) glad you liked it Sean...we hope to have more in the future (Sysop Jake) We should have more formal COs. --FIN--